How To Ensure That God Will Give You Cancer…
… if he were that sort of person.
I noted yesterday on the John Crowder debacle video that if it was possible for Crowder and his cronies to behave in such a manner and not get struck by lightning then there is nothing that anyone can ever do, write or say that will cause God to strike them in a retributive manner. It seems that Crowder has some competition. Meet Michael Guglielmucci:
A former Adelaide pastor who inspired hundreds of thousands of young Christians with his with his terminal cancer “battle” has been exposed as a fraud. Michael Guglielmucci, whose parents established Edge Church International, an Assemblies of God church at O’Halloran Hill, is now seeking professional help.
Earlier this year, Mr Guglielmucci released a hit song The Healer which was featured on Sydney church Hillsong’s latest album. It debuted at No. 2 on the ARIA charts. The song has become an anthem of faith for believers, many of whom are suffering their own illness and were praying for a miracle for Mr Guglielmucci, who has claimed for two years to be terminally ill.
In one church performance that has attracted 300,000 hits on YouTube, he performs his hit song with an oxygen tube in his nose. The clip was pulled late last night by YouTube with the advice “video no longer available.”
It appears that Mr Guglielmucci, who was a pastor with one of Australia’s biggest youth churches, Planetshakers, may have even deceived his own family.
Anyways here is a clip of the infamous video: Healer (Oxygen Tube Version)
Damn… that takes balls. First, lie about having cancer, then get up in front of a large group of people (while being filmed!) wearing an oxygen tube–because you have cancer–and then read some emotionally loaded Scripture so you can create the right ethos for your song? Wow.
Words… Just… Fail.
I believe that a major problem with many modern Christians is their tendency to confuse worship in a one to one correlation with a ‘feeling’, if you ‘feel’ a certain way God ’showed up’ and it was a ‘good’ worship, and when they leave “God’s house” and they don’t have their ‘feeling’ then their life cannot be worship and God is not there.
But still, to take it to these lengths so people can get some of their Holy Ghost heroin? Wow. You’ve got to hate the church culture that would make someone resort to this, but you’ve got to respect his brass cahonas in pulling it off! For awhile anyways.
The article notes that Mr. Guglielmucci is seeking professional help. Gee, ya think?
HT: Zwinglianity
I’d agree with your statement about Christians confusing a feeling for worship. But I’d disagree that Michael went to these lengths for any Holy Ghost purpose or that a church culture made him resort to this. He’s just crazy and Hillsong needs to (and I’m sure they are self-evaluating) focus more on their character evaluation before throwing someone up on stage that has a compelling story. This is a character issue and a Hillsong leadership development issue.
I see the problem more as valuing gifting or anointing over character and calling. Frustrating news for sure.
Blah to Kyle (who apparently is everywhere!). As to you Scott…. I sure wish I had your gift for post titles… This one is superb.
Your statement about confusing “worship in a one to one correlation with a ‘feeling’ [and if] if you ‘feel’ a certain way God ’showed up’ and it was a ‘good’ worship” is SO true… but may be one of the most difficult things to navigate both personally and corporately – because, often, when you quiet yourself enough to become aware of the presence of God that is always with and around you, it can be an emotional experience. Experiencing the fullness of those emotions without being “guided” by those emotions can be a tricky balancing act.
Louie Giglio (of The Passion Project) made a very insightful statement in regards to worship – he said that our consumer culture has turned worship into another commodity that we consume (much like we do with the music of any popular artist that we enjoy), rather than something that consumes us.
As far as Mike is concerned, I’m sure that Hillsong didn’t just “throw him up on stage”. He and his family are long time ministry associates of Hillsong, and Mike was one of the key songwriters for Planetshakers. They have a lot of shared history.
The problem (IMHO) is that preachers often give themselves permission to “manipulate for Jesus” – i.e. “Every head bowed, every eye closed… lift your hand if you want to commit your life to Christ… I see those hands…”, the idea being, “If someone is reluctant to commit their life to Christ, but they think others are doing it, then they’ll be emboldened to do it as well”. Once we start down the track then manipulations of Mike’s magnitude “to increase someones faith” begin to make very sad and twisted sense…
I don’t see how lying makes sense in any such situation. He lied not to glorify God or lead people to faith- but to make himself the focus and to garner attention. He evidently had never read ‘He must increase, and I must decrease’ (and that’s John the Baptist speaking of Jesus, and himself, in that order).
I think Jim Henson said it best when he said “Hey, does anybody have some Tylenol? I think I feel a cold coming on.”
At the first sign of a cough, Mikey should pretty much just lock himself in a hospital.
As far as worship (music) and emotionality are concerned, it’s all part and parcel of our biological make up (and might I add that Scott’s biological make up is a bit heavy on the rouge and eyeliner. You look like a clown). We’re designed to react emotionally to music no matter what and I don’t think anyone in here is saying that this is a bad thing.
Where we run into trouble as a Church, is our intentionality behind the use of music in a worship service. As a worship leader, it’s so easy to just throw out a couple of favorites or a few songs that are easy to play (so that your band who all missed Wednesday rehearsals for whatever reason can still play it) and as a participant in the worship service, it’s so easy to sit back and pay lip service to songs that we’ve heard and played maybe hundreds of times before. It’s at this point that our emotionality can get in the way of the wonderful vehicle that music actually is for worship.
Is anyone here well acquainted with the hard narcotic the kids are calling “cocaine” these days? What happens when you first hit that gravy train is nothing short of phenomenal. In terms of momentary “feel goodery” nothing on this earth can really come close. But after a period of regular use, your brain receptors need more and more of the substance to get that feeling of a high.
It’s the exact same with music in worship. I’ve been a worship leader in small groups, a country church, a large summer camp, a university and a very very large church. Where the average church goer may sing a very common worship song 50-100 times in the course of a number of years, I’ve done them THOUSANDS of times (when you take rehearsals and practice into account). From a biological perspective you guys, there is literally NOTHING left for me in some of these songs. That’s not to say they don’t speak truth, I’m simply saying that no matter how good the music can be, music in and of itself is not enough.
How does your church conscientiously choose it’s songs? How does it deliberate over what to use and what not to use? I’m not talking about “Hey it’s communion Sunday again, we’d better sing ‘Nothing But The Blood’ and ‘Old Rugged Cross” but rather how does your church use and aim it’s musical tools?
Jim hit the nail on the head when he said that the focus of this “songwriter” became self centred (it’s not even that great of a song either, have you heard it? How many ways can you spell BORING). If the focus and aim of the use of music in the church is simply to elicit a response, then get ready for more of this kind of thing.
I will finish my ramble off with a heartfelt plea from me, a songwriter, to the many of you here who are far more theologically grounded and knowledgeable than I am:
It has become imperative that you theologians lead the the way. Not in a musical sense (because I’ve heard some of you sing, it’s not pretty is it), but from a cognitive point of view. Change the way the people in your church interpret the world around them by leading people to a fuller understanding of God, give your songwriters a deeper foundation in scripture and a balanced worldview that’s as flexible as it is firm. I don’t know what made this nut job fake cancer besides some serious shortcomings to his mental well being, but freak shows aside, I truly believe we need a more grounded approach to music in the church so that we have something to anchor our emotional responses to.
Amen. Jesus is LOURD!
[Scott: "How many ways can you spell BORING?" Well, just one really: B-O-R-I-N-G]
Doc W: (a.k.a. “Jim”) – good point… I meant “made sad and twisted sense” to him – not that it made sense in any kind of a sane way.
I don’t think that it’s really that long of a journey from small manipulations of truth to the point where Mike arrived – and it’s justifications all the way downhill!
Insanity seems pretty reasonable when your inside it! (Speaking from personal experience
I definitely see this as a character issue, and possibly a mental health issue. Gah…it’s very frustrating though…stuff like this only seems to confirm unbelievers worst fears about Christianity and Christians…
Why golly, that man is a wretched fraud!
*throws tomatoe*
Do I hear calls for a “Worst Worship Leader Ever” contest? Or is there no way to top this guy?
I have to admit, I’ve occasionally been given to the “worship=feeling” dichotomy. At a church we are currently visiting (having left another over doctrinal and leadership issues), I have complained about having had bad “worship” because the music sucked (and because the sermons tend to be milky). I think that almost every song that can be found in the Baptist Hymnal ™ is funereal, not joyful, so there’s a big disconnect for me anytime the WL pulls out one of the musty, dusty oldies (which is several times a week).
I’d be perfectly happy to have a mosh pit down front, and all the songs to be from Thousand Foot Krutch, Demon Hunter, and Alice In Chains (oops, that one slipped out). I think that the Bishop was exactly right that worship — the whole package, not just the music — has become a consumer commodity (complete with impulse advertising: “I’m a Christian, he’s a Christian, she’s a Christian, we’re a Christian, wouldn’t you like to be a Christian, too?” [apologies to Dr Pepper, the most perfect non-alcoholic carbonated beverage in the known universe]). From the top down, church leadership has decided to appeal to the lowest common denominator. And the same ideation has infected all of us: if the preacher says this is what’s important, then this is what’s important. Bread and circuses all around.
But I’m looking for the beam, not the mote. I realize that my problem is with me. The location, the pastor, the music, are all fungible. What, I think, we lose sight of (and by “we,” I mean “I”) is that “worship” benefits God exactly zero (because what do you give the God who IS everything? — and I don’t mean that in a zen kind of way). We expect God to reward us for giving him our time and attention. The rub is, when we truly seek communion with God, the communion is the reward.
(Dammit, Scott! I hate bellybutton-gazing! And you’re just showing me how much of it I do!)
It really doesn’t surprise me when people — your Bakkers, your Robertsons, your Phillipses, or this Guglielmucci cat — turn out to be frauds. The church is no more exempt from this kind of stuff than I am from breathing. Call me jaded (my wife frequently does), but I’m more surprised when people don’t turn out to be fakers, especially when they’re in front of huge “movements” in the church body.
(And of course, if you have a load of wares to sell, you have to tailor your schtick to your audience: Fergie or Shakira would’ve made this song overtly sexual — maybe by walking across the room, or just, you know, being — and this guy straps on his O2 bottle and rocks out. Not for nothin’ PT Barnum said “A sucker is born every minute.” A terminally ill guy singing about “Jesus is my healer”? How could this not have played out exactly like it has?)
All that said, this joker does have quite the pair. Which makes the rapturous expressions on the faces in the crowd, in the video above, all the more sickening. Because how much damage has been done in the wake of this?
Jake,
How many times have I told you that when I have the makeup on you have to refer to me by my stage name “Pepsi Delight”?
Brian,
Worst worship leader ever? i don’t know. Rick Pino is still alive and operating, so at the very least he would have some competition.
Everybody,
Great thoughts guys (and girls possibly, I guess).
Jim: I can assure you….I AM everywhere..muahahah
Bishop D: I agree. I’m sure they didn’t throw him up without *any* evaluation. But I find it hard to believe that nobody, not even his own family, talked to any doctors and just took Michael’s word. I just don’t get that. I would just think that with as big of a stage as they put him on there might just be 1 conversation with a doctor, just one…throw me a bone here.
Jake: amen.
I pronounce a sentence on him… Oh wait. Wrong guy apparently.
This dude’s another ass, charlatan, loser. Wake up world!
‘You’ve got to hate the church culture that would make someone resort to this, but you’ve got to respect his brass cahonas in pulling it off! For awhile anyways.’
I totally agree with this statement. Having been a pastor within a large, hillsong loving, purpose driven purporting, grow at all costs type, church (which God gracefully answered my prayers to take me out of). I can honestly say that once you start to feed the beast of ‘the wow factor’ in every service, and yeah it was even called that, that beast will rip your arm off if it gets hungry. So every week there is this underlying drive to up the ante, to give the consumer what they came for. Stuff truth, stuff the Word of God, stuff the Holiness of God, stuff depth, stuff discipleship. Just feed the beast, and grow, and get more money, and look more successful.
Mike comes from just such a church culture, in fact a hyper-version of it, if you have interacted with any of Planet shakers stuff you will know what I am talking about. He has grown up in it, and has been well schooled in it, and he has just taken it to what I think is a beautifully appropriate level, that reveals the consumer marketing ethos within the modern church in all it’s vulgarity.
this song could even get more popularity… if they brought him on stage with a straight jacket and then he sang it. LOL. He still needs a healer just not from cancer.
Do we really need music to get us into the worship spirit?!since when God need our emotional worship enhancement drugs!
I wounder also “I say that with the utmost respect to the holy spirit”, but did the healed pastor also speak in tongues?! could that be unreal “fraud” too?! how can you speak(pray) in/by the “holy spirit” in the presence of deception, if we are/he is praying in tongues to edify self, what sort of spiritual edification is that??!!
Please WAKE UP AOG….
THE LORD IS NEAR
and most of what you offer is not for the spirit heart but only for the eye and EAR.
It’s much more than just to cheer,
but it is love after GOD’S fear.
Lots of emotions and tears, and deception year after year!
GOD HELP US the shepherd voice HEAR, AND to the truth ADHERE.
GLORY BE TO YOUR NAME ONLY from a loving heart and sincere!
a very embarrassed Christian!
Has anyone seen the movie “Marjoe”, about the former child evangelist? This removes ALL doubt that a person can be a fraud and speak in tongues like a pro! Tongues are a phenomenon of intimacy with the Holy Spirit, and are easily mimicked. This sorry fellow named Mike is just another poor soul crying out for help no one could see the forest for the trees kind of thing!
This kind of fraud is nothing new! Jacob did it to steal his brothers blessing! Spiritual shenanigans! It surprises me that the Christian community is so shocked when a brother falls! It has been surveyed that 85% of ALL pastors have struggles with Internet Porn! Why are we deifying people?
David, Saul, Sampson, and many more “Heroes” of the Bible all had VERY SERIOUS lapses is morality and spiritual judgement. We need to lift our leaders up more in prayer and support to help prevent this and restore those that do fall. Though restoration would be an a very limited basis in most cases in my opinion.
MAN, you should put those lyrics to a song! Some people say that the ABAB rhyme scheme is the most effective but AAAAAA is my personal favourite too! AWESOME…
May I add my own verses? It would go like this:
THE LORD IS NEAR.
He’s closer to you than a pothead keeps his gear.
and most of what you offer is not for the spirit heart but only for the eye and EAR
Like some annoying Austrian Gondolier.
It’s much more than just to cheer,
Or drink copious amounts of English beer,
but it is love after GOD’S fear.
The line above makes as much sense as the lyrics to Kashmir.
Lots of emotions and tears, and deception year after year!
It comes and goes like that big blimp Goodyear!
GOD HELP US the shepherd voice HEAR, AND to the truth ADHERE.
Like a squeaky clean Mouseketeer.
GLORY BE TO YOUR NAME ONLY from a loving heart and sincere!
Like this poem I have commandeered.
English beer? Are we slumming?
Oh Brian… just when I thought we were starting to connect.
NEWCASTLE!!!! Come on man! Horrid footy team, fantastic brew.
Plus it’s too hot where I live right now for Guiness.
Burn it all to the ground, and start again with poor, unselfish people making all the decisions
“Fantastic” is a stretch. Heard of hops? Really helps with flavor.
I’ll give you alcohol content. You could actually (if so inclined) get drunk off English beer (IN England, or American beer in England). That same Newc’stle here in the states has probably half the alcohol.
Of course, that may have something to do with the disconnect.
Meant to say, I prefer a good pilsner over an ale, too, anyway. Or bitters.
The story on which this article is based – Michael Guglielmucci’s deception – has developed in the last couple of days. Michael’s father – the senior pastor at their quite big church – has announced that the basis for his son’s problems is (and I swear I’m not making this up) his addiction to PORNOGRAPHY!!!! As if being sprung with a fake cancer tale wasn’t bad enough, now dad’s outed him as a chronic masturbator! Hilarious.
“It has become imperative that you theologians lead the the way. Not in a musical sense (because I’ve heard some of you sing, it’s not pretty is it), but from a cognitive point of view. Change the way the people in your church interpret the world around them by leading people to a fuller understanding of God, give your songwriters a deeper foundation in scripture and a balanced worldview that’s as flexible as it is firm. ”
–Too true.
I’ve often thought about the “lyrical theology” of our songs. People will often times not really remember what the preacher said, but will be able to sing a song or two from Sunday Morning Music Time. And often times (from my own experience) God will just put that right song on your lips, much like the right scripture popping into your head. How important the lyrics/theology can be!
Too much of modern consumer worship leaders are what I call “Holy Spirit Snake Charmers”. They come out, play the right notes, and attempt to get the Holy Spirit to come up out of His basket and perform for the audience. (And of course, it’s always important to validate your ‘gifting’, and ‘anointing’.)
I’m pretty bothered that people charge churches to sing their songs to God on Sunday mornings as well.
It’s like Paul, or John being around today — and forcing churches to pay them a royalty every time they wanted to read the bible.
Things to note.
1. Many churches decieive people all the time when they claim to have answers they dont. This is typified over and over in stuff like this – a man who lies to people for YEARS – we’re not just talking a day or 2. This is calculated premeditated on an incredible scale – you dont accidentally put on an oxygen mask and accidentally lie to people in the name of God – according to the Bible this sin is unforgivable. Michael and South Side are (according to their faith) damned.
2. Think of the concept here. Mike was raised in a christian home with christian values – he knew the bible about putting stumbling blocks before others, and yet he chose to disregard this faith for years and deceive people willingly, based upon his own self diagnosis that his sickness was because of porn – wether this is true or not – i know thousands of christians who secretly look at porn – and many of them are good people. Who are we kidding here – there is no difference between Jew or Greek, Christian or Muslim – all people are individuals with their own rules. Thats the biggest problem with pentecostalism – is they’ve lost touch with reality and are trying to push their own idealism as though it is fact when most christians cant even agree with each other on anything!
3. For years Mike upholds a lie and makes money in the process. (Love of money is the root of all evil according to the Bible.) So was Mike a “spirit filled born again believer” and how could he do this as one for years as such – or didnt he have a conscience back then? Why suddenly now? His dad said he confessed but the news broke a different story according to the Advertiser. Now suddenly he’s seen the “light” and wants to repent, but he doesnt want to do the time for the crime. What of the leadership – they knew his crime too but werent forthcoming as they claim – it seems money is their true God.
4. Why didnt Mike repent 2 years before – why now? And the excuse – pornography addiction. Apparently the internet now is viewed over 75% of the worlds population for pornographic purposes – so why isnt everyone deciveing each other over stuff like this? I know dozens of christians myself who have porn – who cares? Porn is a soceity created problem – and the church doesnt have those kinds of answers – if it did they wouldnt have to send him away or make him answer for his sin.
5. Christians claim to be able to heal the sick and raise the dead despite the fact we never see such outworking – according to the New Testament people saw miracles and were converted but today even the believers can only believe in such things and we never see anything. I was a fundamentalist with the AOG (same faith as Southside Edge) for 20+ years – i once believed just like these people do and do you know what – i never saw miracles either.
Only when i had the guts to put my faith to test did i find the truth that much of what i thought i knew wasnt fact based either. Southside is in truth nothiing else but another cult because they try to replace history with their own bias, that would make themselves God (unanswerable to anyone) instead!
Most of the bible isnt even historically accurate in the first place (slaughter of the hebrew babes in mathew for example – discredited by the people who gave us the bible in the first place!) Thousands of arguments here against biblical fundamentalism – never discussed in church i note. Why? Ignorance.
6. When it all comes crashing down, suddenly the church is full of answers but still cant deliver and Mike has to go see a worldly psychiatrist to get his healing. Why is that if God is their “healer”.
7. The truth – most christians live by feelings not faith – and thousands are being deceived in the name of God – its a huge scam built upon emotion and greed. Look at the church and how rich it is! You cant say the church has answers when they deceive people like this – and then further deceive people by thinking they can cure him of such things – there is just too many inconsistencies to this whole reality and most christians are ignorant of the truth. So we get behind poor mike, excuse him of his sins and say its all ok – because we dont want to admit to ourselves the real truth that we lie to ourselves willingly.
8. Otherwise there’d be healings and a supernatural God working in our midst and we’d never hear of stuff like this again and again and again. This happens because in church no one is truly accountable to anyone – its a pyramid of simply men – why didnt any of the prophets forsee this?
Too many riddles – its time for people to start asking themselves why they believe this trash. It isnt Mike who was deceiving the people – its the church that made Mike what he truly is.
Extra note from rereading above – yes i exxaggerated about knowing “thousands” of christians who look at porn. I work in the IT industry and have fixed hundreds of pc’s many by fundamentalist born again washed in the blood of the lamb christians – many of which – Pastors included – have libraries of porn on them and some hide it rather well!
So what does it mean to be born again anyways – last i checked it doesnt mean much -though it does sound spiritual! The rate of divorce is the same christian vs non christian – the amount of porn watched appears to be about the same and ironically i cant find any real statistic showing much difference at all between them. Today there are over 350 million fundamentalist born again denominations who all believe the bible to be the word of God but all cant agree because of how they interpret it!
So who is telling the real truth?
I myself because of my experiences still believe in God – but from what I can tell – is that God appears to be far different than what the Pentecostals try to make him – and Mike is just another tragic example
Wow,
Well, you are a good observer, but I believe you have drawn some mistaken conclusions.
I’m in IT as well and you are correct that statistically 85% of ministers struggle with Internet porn.
I have grown up in AOG churches and I have seen spectacular miracles that defied all natural reason and laws of nature, but certainly I agree they are far disproportion to what one would expect.
It is my observation that the hopes of Christians, and Pentecostals in particular, since that is what you are mainly referring to, that you are expressing disappointment not in the Power of God, but the lack of faith in men to manifest God’s power.
God can’t be blamed for the lack of faith in His power, since Jesus went out of His way to point out that lack of the miraculous was because of personal unbelief.
Those are all good questions and point blame not at an ineffective Gospel, but the power of sin and the grip of evil Satan has on this fallen world.
I wrote a little paper on faith if you’d like to read it… It may help you because we’ve all had these questions nag us. http://www.marvinbotts.com/faith.htm
Marvin
Marvin – you have incredible perception of thought.
I checked out your website. Amazing.
True the faith link was good reading and pretty hard hitting – but i then went to your “home” and that really punched home the truth.
Everyone – check this out!
http://www.marvinbotts.com/
It has rekindled my faith in God – *(alas i had lost it somewhat in men, and disallusioned as it were by the church I had followed for years later i had stumbled trying to find my step – tonight i ask God’s forgiveness again for following men).
A observation you made from your website is truly staggering -I’d love to repost it – because this is amazing stuff) – for I too have seen miracles but not in the context the church had preached for such years.
Yes I too believe in God – but I fear (for right of a better word) that what God is – is different to what many men would make him. Like the name of the Golden Calf in the OT that the people made – they called their creation Yahweh, and made “god” into something of their own creation. (the scripture reference is found if you look up what they called the calf the name of God – not if you search Yahweh – i cant remember the link – sorry!)
Even though the true God was something far different and would make them pay the ultimate price for their treason.
This is just like many churches do today as they try to preach God in something they can control rather than reveal God as He truly is. This is the difference between knowing a truth and knowing of a truth – many today are of the latter – to really know a truth requires discipline and obedience, not just gift. We need to be careful to seek hard after the truth – not just that which is pleasing to the ears – especially if our salvation hangs on that which we believe!
As we all have tasted in part – as well all know in part, this truth.
I am sure there is great truth in God – and your site Marvin – simple as it appears – is testimony to something pretty impressive you have observed as well.
Check it out guys that link of Marvin’s – theres some powerful stuff there,
http://www.marvinbotts.com/
Thanks Marvin – whoever you are.
Wow!
How kind!
I just have been there and felt what you are talking about! Who needs that dead wood religious junk!
The God of the Bible has come to life in my time of need when I poured our my heart unconditionally on His altar. All the nonsense going on in many churches, all the bazzillion opinions, I just need some REAL relief, not some Sweet By n By stuff!
I told God in my heart that if I’m gunna die anyway, I’m gunna die at His altar because I like what He promises, I just don’t like what I see… I was Hell-Bent, poor choice of words perhaps, to get to the truth and there’s nothing like a broken heart that will get God’s attention!
I don’t know all the answers, but I do know the Answer! Christ has satisfied those questions to my complete satisfaction! It was an “Experience” of faith that changed my doubts to strength.
There’s one thing I read that God hates and that is lies… Yet the church seemed to be filled with lies and liars! I stopped being so distraught with the failures of others and became more concerned with my faith. I figured that if at least I speak the truth, then no one can accuse me. We are all far from perfect, but far from doing what we can!
So true – yes indeed Marvin – yes indeed.
I live in Australia and for some of us it is difficult to perceive a land outside of our own and i mean this in context to say weather when you live in rural communities in which i do.
Where i live is a land which is hot for much of the year. It has never snowed here where i live in history – ever. Our Christmas is often 30-40 + degrees C, so the whole concept of christmas as in the story of snow is laughable. Often during such extreme heat we joke to ourselves that snow is actually propoganda spun on tv to make us think that there is something else out there other than what we know is the truth.
And whilst all of that is obviously nonsense the truth of the matter is that just because i havent seen it doesnt mean it doesnt exist. Because snow does “apparently” exist.
When I became born again I had a spiritual experience that defied all reason and understanding and it came outside of any church. The entire experience was so real to me I still cant deny the experience – even though Ive never seen anything like it – it was indeed a true miracle because at the time I had only just submitted my life to Christ (having borne so much greif over all my sin) and I received the baptism in the Holy Spirit before hearing anyone speak in tongues before – i never knew it existed. The person who “led me to christ” had not received the gift and didnt know it existed either – and he was astonished for straight way I began to speak in tongues prophecie about his life and he was immediately overcome he fell to the ground pleading forgiveness – the event was so dynamic to us that we both went down to the church he had come from amazed and rejoicing in our new experiences of God.
And so we went to a Pentecostal church who claimed to know all about these things though although they believed in the gifts of the Spirit, downplayed the phenomena and although they used the catch phrases of spirit filled etc, seldom if ever used the spiritual gifts in any context at all – it became addons and extras or secondary to preaching.
I’ve seen things I cant explain also, but tragically not in churches not by the people who claimed to believe – the church I was in for over 20 years excelled in preaching and teaching “philosophy” in the name of God – although it all seemed idealistic and provokative – it would never come to pass.
Yet it was emotional and the church would often play music very “sensitively” if not like a drug whereby people eventually began to associate spiritual worship with a almost hypnotic illusion week after week.
But from what I had seen and experienced the divine was never to give men glory but was for another purpose entirely.
Yes I also hate liars with a vengance – because so many of us ignorant to the real truth and are often caught up with a movement instead of with the man Christ Jesus.
You see this all the time with people – we’re all the same – ready to make heroes out of everyone – its why so many are hurt about this Michael Gugglielmucci dude – cause so many “worshipped him” as well.
It shows if anything that what the church context has become as from what it is is different in the first century as to what it is today. The pulpit is probably the reason behind this because it becomes a focus point making people subject only to one man instead of like a circle where everyone is subject to each other.
And thats just what you see today – the church becomes a leadership like a pyramid with one man at the top, generally unaccountable to another – its why Mike was allowed to get where he did – he was a product of the church.
So thats why i fear is that the focus has been lost in this generation and that somehow God needs to strip down the idols of the present movement if he can ever restore or bring the next reformation of a God who is known in the hearts of men.
This is what this generation needs – fresh living encounter with the living Spirit of God – not something which can be taught but something which can be known.
Perhaps this is why every revival starts with passionate people who have such experiences and ends with theology in those who dont know what they speak.
Think it over.
Awesome story…
I think it’s human nature to elevate others beyond what the Lord intends. I know that on the times the Lord has manifested powerful gifts of the Spirit through me like Word’s of knowledge people treat me differently. The first reaction is fear, then they are dumbstruck, followed by an intense desire to lift you up! It not only puts the person manifesting the gifts of the Spirit feel awkward, it for sure grieves the Holy Spirit. It’s a disservice to all when human emotions are inappropriately applied to Spiritual gifts.
Perhaps “hate for lies” or “the father of lies” would be better said than hate for any person who lies, because about the time we say that God catches us in something… I try to separate the person from the sin when I see it.
However, The Bible does talk about giving over to satan those Christians who persist in sin. I find myself defensive of how people abuse the gentle presence of the Holy Spirit. I have found that vulnerability is a characteristic of Holiness. That is one reason why so often the Gospel is swarming with manipulative personalities. It’s a scary thing when you think about the ultimate consequences of treating Holiness with such contempt. Yet it speaks volumes of the grace of Christ!
Truly, to be led by the Spirit is something we have not seen in our modern era in any substantive way… We just have dribs and drabs so far, but the increase in frequency of outpourings, and the gradual awareness that the Holy Spirit is instilling on the Body of Christ is outwardly encouraging.
We all need to let go of our dogma in favor of the Living Holy Spirit who cannot be boxed-in by man made Theology. The Gospel Jesus presented was simple and clear… Repent, believe, and teach others about Christ. The Holy Spirit may give us tools that will cause discomfort to some, well, many, but I’m not willing to sacrifice truth for comfort Theology.
Lord Bless
i’m adoring the explorations you’re all giving here.
Also an Aussie, unfortunately affected by the Gugleimucci drama. Back in the day of youth in my church, i can still remember sitting in my seat expectantly waiting for the visiting speaker – guglielmucci – to arrive, until the youth pastor gets up on stage and announces with distress that earlier that day said pastor had been diagnosed with a terminal blood condition. The majority of the session was then dedicated to the power of prayer over michael and his family. A year or so goes by and the annual PlanetShaker conference rolls around with guglielmucci as “sick” as he apparently was making a special appearence. I was told that just by walking from his wheelchair to the stage he broke several ribs, but the sheer power he elicited made it all worth while. The compassion and love flowed with people in tears talking about ‘pastor mike’s stand’ weeks after the event. Fast forward to next Youth Alive event having michael jumping around on stage exclaiming how great god is at his healing, and the revelation behind “Healer”. Literally thousands being drawn into his plight, myself included. But with the release of his ‘betrayal’ as is being dubbed around the melbournian chrisitan circuit, all is good and well for me and everyone else who can be removed from the situation, but for my friends who were lead to jesus by his messages, who fasted in hope of his healing, etc Those still young in faith cannot comprehend the
deception and manipulation god allowed to continue, causing them to more then merely stumble.
My point is that the true reailty of God has been distorted into a perception shaped by people such as Guglielmucci. In opposition to the idea that “he was a product of the church” i think the church is more a product of people like him. He presented the idea that all god wanted to do was heal him, so new recruits have the same narrow misconception of ‘god’ that He is just there to fix all the problems. Due to their trust of pastors like guglielmucci when reality hits they fall apart, unable to deal with the contrasting ideology they welcomed unquestioningly. Young people such as these were responsible for starting a facebook group “i hate michael gugliemucci” (i know how hardcore) but it shows the spiritual maturity behind attacks like this. His misrepresentation of god has formed a niave and immature generation of chrisitian youth, the full extent revealled only by his fraud
Mind you im not trying to blame guglielmucci for all the problems destroy christian youth today, instead just using him as an example of one of the elements contributing to a very real problem. However his messages were good, he has a fantastic voice and ability to connect . I guess people should just be thankful for those attributes and learn from his mistake no matter the extent of his deception to them.
But hey, just an idea.