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June 21, 2012

Bob writes,

This is how some still punish many crimes in barbaric parts of the world, simply because a holy book says so. So I ask: should a holy book that prescribed death for working on a particular day of the week be used to legislate other aspects of our modern lives? Should the judgements of a God that commanded death for gathering sticks on Saturday be consulted for issues like same sex marriage?

Go watch. Then try and justify the actions taken the Bible. And then try and apply those ethics to our modern world. If you can justify the actions taken in the Bible, and can reconcile them with a modern ethic, and offer a prescription for our modern legislation, then congratulations – you’re a fundamentalist.

XKV8R: The Official Blog of Dr. Robert R. Cargill

NonStampCollector (@nonstampNSC; YouTube) has published his latest movie on YouTube, which is actually a remake of “Yahweh’s Perfect Justice”, a film he published in 2009 based on Numbers 15:32-36, but which was banned because it depicted the biblical act of stoning a person to death.

NonStamp asked viewers to contribute images of people stoning a person to death, and many did.

Numbers 15:32-36 reads (NRSV):

Num. 15:32 When the Israelites were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day.
Num. 15:33 Those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses, Aaron, and to the whole congregation.
Num. 15:34 They put him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him.
Num. 15:35 Then the LORD said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp.”
Num. 15:36 The…

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25 Comments leave one →
  1. June 24, 2012 4:05 pm

    It is always amusing to see how unbelievers think their sense of justice and right and wrong are superior to God’s.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy permalink
      July 1, 2012 12:17 pm

      Can you speak English instead of ducskpeak Christianese?

      “And they’ll know we are Christians
      ‘Cause we’re Smug, ’cause we’re Smug,
      Yes they’ll know we are Christians
      ‘Cause we’re Smug…”

    • p louis permalink
      July 16, 2012 3:56 pm

      Idiot.

  2. June 25, 2012 8:55 am

    It is always amusing to see how someone socialized under the insulated shield of faith, saddled by poor criteria by which to evaluate reality, indoctrinated to lack critical thinking skills comment on a blog post.

  3. June 25, 2012 2:56 pm

    who says your definition of ‘critical thinking’ is correct?

    • Headless Unicorn Guy permalink
      July 1, 2012 12:18 pm

      Translation:
      “You obviously do NOT have a Rational Mind.
      If you did, You Would Agree Completely With Me.”
      — Ayn Rand

  4. June 26, 2012 6:05 am

    Then give a better definition, Doc.
    Besides, if you really think that stoning someone to death is a fair punishment for a crime, let alone such an arbitrary and imaginary one like gathering firewood on Sabbath (GATHERING FIREWOOD? Really?), I think your imaginary friend has hijacked your moral compass to such an extent that you actually lack any capacity of evaluating right and wrong, let alone to think critically. So don’t hide in the corner splitting hairs about terminological issues.

    • Headless Unicorn Guy permalink
      July 1, 2012 12:19 pm

      When I look back at such things, my response is “Welcome to Bronze Age Semitic Tribal Culture.”

  5. June 26, 2012 5:58 pm

    it doesn’t matter what I think, God decreed it thus it is fair and I am not greater than He. God is the source of right and wrong, how will your idea of those two items be better than God’s? Thinking critically doesn’t mean that I end up agreeing with you or the unbelieving world. You and the rest of the unbelieving world are in no position to judge God and His justice especially when you cannot produce anything better on earth.

    • June 27, 2012 10:17 am

      LOL! No one needs to define “non-critical-thinking skills”… you’ve done it perfectly here, “it doesn’t matter what I think”.

      It’s in a book that I’ve been taught to read with massive assumptions and without questioning therefore it is! Yeehaw!

      BTW: how come you’re not a ‘Dr.’ anymore?

  6. June 27, 2012 6:02 pm

    The Dr. is still there it just depends upon the sign in option I use.

    In regards to your comment, I am free to question God and who is to say I haven’t done so last month, last year or las decade. Once one comes to the realization that God is right we do not have to question everything He says. We obey and learn how to do such punishments justly without bias or emotional influence for in God’s kingdom God and His way rule not the subjects and we recognize that ur fallible thoughts are too mixed with corruptible influences which tend to undermine justice, fairness, honesty etc..

    But I do not expect you to accept or understand these words. For the believer, the questioning comes BEFORE one decides to convert NOT after. Big Difference.

    • June 30, 2012 10:33 am

      Dr. Tee: where is your doctorate from, who did you study under, and what was your dissertation topic?

      • Headless Unicorn Guy permalink
        July 1, 2012 12:20 pm

        Honorary Doctorate from Podunk Bible College?

  7. June 30, 2012 3:34 pm

    None of your business. personal information does not get posted on the inernet and you are not judge jury or executioner of my credentials

    • June 30, 2012 8:14 pm

      So basically, since there are a myriad of actual Dr.’s around the internet, who freely post their academic info–as if your doctoral adviser and topic are some sort of ‘private’ info [no papers at conferences?]–I will assume that your ‘doctorate’ is a joke (especially as it seems as if grammar and punctuation are beyond you), or from a Fundy U.

  8. July 1, 2012 4:03 am

    You can assume what you want but it doesn’t mean you are correct but then unbelievers will always try to find some minute, unimportant point to try and discredit a person who disagrees with them simply because they cannot fight against the truth.

    God has his reasons for implementing the death penalty and it was up to the Israelites to obey. Disobedience does bring punishment, You should know that from your experiences as a child. God gets to set the punishment because it is His creation, His kingdom, His rules NOT the unbelievers.

  9. July 1, 2012 10:24 am

    “but then unbelievers will always try to find some minute, unimportant point to try and discredit a person who disagrees with them”

    Some ‘minute, unimportant’ point? You are claiming to be a “Dr.” while offering high school theology. That would be an outrageous lie if you are not, and gross misrepresentation. That would not be a ‘minute’ point. I have a four-year undergraduate in Religion and Theology and a MA in Biblical Studies. I can translate Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic, but I would never pose as a “Dr.” as I have not earned those academic credentials. I would not lie like that.

    OK, you say “Disobedience does bring punishment,” and you think it’s logical for someone to be put to death for picking up wood on the Sabbath. I wonder what the Bible has to say about liars, or those who are false to the truth?

    But a few verses:

    “But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast and be false to the truth. This is not the wisdom that comes down from above, but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic.” James 3:14–15

    “But we know that the Law is good, if one uses it lawfully, realizing the fact that law is not made for a righteous person, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers, and whatever else is contrary to sound teaching.” 1 Timothy 1:8–10

    “But for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury.” Romans 2:8

    “But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

  10. July 1, 2012 2:34 pm

    Like I said you would assume wrong and calling me a liar puts you in a position of calling yourself a liar as you are attacking your own assumption not facts about me. Sounds like those verses apply to you not me.

    The truth is the truth. Humans do not see everything nor does God reveal all of His reasons to us for implementng certain things, like that law. your job is to obey not stan din judgement fo ryou are not great enough to pass any sort of judgement, nor is robert cargill.

    I do not care what you can translate without the Holy Spirit helping you I doubt you hit the truth. there is more to scriptures than mere translating them.

    What you also forget is, I do not answer to you. It is not my problem that you do not like the title ‘Dr.’ in front of my name but guess what– it sounds like you are jealous and can’t accept people’s accomplishments unless you give a personal okay.

    well it is none of your business and you do not have the right to demand anything from me.

    • July 1, 2012 5:23 pm

      “Dr.” I have asked you straight up and your ridiculous reply actually shows your true colours.

      Each reply you give is more ridiculous than the last.

      I’m not jealous of you: I actually know real Dr.s who are well known and respected in their fields. Your fake claims, idiotic arguments, and terrible spelling are my clues that you are not a “Dr”

      • July 2, 2012 12:12 am

        You would be wrong. It is possible that my terrible spelling comes from being a bad typist and editor or that I just do not care or that English may not be my first language or i just disrespect you so much that i am not even going to try to type well.

        I just look to God for the truth and write that. What you do with it is up to you. I am not trying to be ‘scholarly’ or ‘academic’ in the secular defintions of those words. I just like to keep it simple

        Yes you asked me straight up and I gave you a straight answer–it is none of your business and I do not post personal information on the internet. It is not my fault that you can’t accept those replies.

        My achievements are not the focal point of the message I bring and they need not be brought to other people’s eyes as I do not need to be prideful. God taught me many thngs as i studied but i didn’t study typing.

  11. July 2, 2012 9:42 am

    “I am not trying to be ‘scholarly’ or ‘academic’ in the secular defintions [sic] of those words.” Enlighten me: what is the ‘Christian’ definitions of those terms? They mean different things?

    “I just like to keep it simple.” I know, I looked at your sites. You like to keep it simple all right.

    I’m going to be done with this conversation until you can show in any demonstrable manner that you have any credentials whatsoever, because you are judgmental (in the worst way possible) and overly simple. I have wasted enough time trying to start a conversation while you make poor arguments, unsubstantiated claims, and very poor arguments.

    If I want to know anything about actual archaeology, I will go to an actual archaeologist who is known in his field, has actually gone to school and has actually been published: a real Dr., Bob Cargill.

    I’m guessing that you will respond with some sort of argument that basically says he’s an “unbeliever” (you like throwing that word around as justification for your brain vomit), therefore, anything he says or does is invalid (because, you know, you’re “not trying to be ‘scholarly’ or ‘academic’ in the secular defintions [sic] of those words.”). However, if you had actually gone to a University and actually learned anything you would have learned that any level of Fideism is always frowned upon in an academic setting. This is one of the red flags for me as to your ‘education’.

    That and your ‘great’ medical advice… way to operate in reality “Dr.” Tee.

  12. July 2, 2012 6:06 pm

    You can go wherever you like it just doesn’t mean you will get the truth even from someone who is supposedly a ‘real’ archaeologist. The people who read my sites are not experts so why should I turn them off with the use of technical words?

    You obviously do not know God’s rules so by your logic I should questgion your theological ‘education’ and denythat you ever graduated. Of course I can’t because I have not been present through every moment of your life and the same applies to you. You may not like my style but you cannot say I did not achieve my doctoral status because you were not present in my life.

    Again, your picking on such a minute point only demonstrates your unwillingness to hear anythign contrary to what you consider acceptable. I do not have to present any material stating my qualifications as I do not answer to you or my readers. You can either accept my words or rejectthem, a third possibility is to think about themand compare them to scripture.

    Your use of certain adjectives also demonstrates that you read your own opinions into my words and then attack those even though they are far from the truth. They are further proof that you do not grasp what is being said and do not listen to those who do not think like you do.

    This ‘I am done’ with this conversation shows that you just like to abuse people who disagree with you and you create these distractions to avoid listening to their message.

  13. July 3, 2012 9:50 am

    David: are you so mentally stunted and ignorant that you think lying about academic credentials is a “minute” point?

    What site did you buy your ‘degrees’ from?

  14. July 4, 2012 9:18 am

    Oh Doc, how many words to avoid saying “ok, got me. A phony Jeezuz Biblical College has awarded me one of its mass produced fake academic titles, I’m just trying to look credible when talking about things I don’t have a shred of evidence for, like the existence of my personal imaginary friend, wich only I can see, much like asylum lunatics see Cleopatra or Julius Caesar.” Oh come on, it’s ok to have an imaginary friend, as long as someone makes sure you aren’t given any form of adult responsibility.

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